💡Product Circle ⭕ Chat - Product Leadership & the Executive Team with Richard Russell
💡Product Circle ⭕ Chat 38 with Richard Russell how CPOs can thrive with their new exec team. Bridging the gap between Product Leadership and the Executive Team.
💡Product Circle⭕ Chat runs every second week as a Zoom call that anyone can join to talk all things product, product management and problem solving. Creating value for customers and the business.
Best of all, when you attend live, you receive goodies like free courses and decks (like Janna Bastow provided), a free book (like Rich Mironov, Roman Pichler and others provided), access to their course for free (like John Cutler provided) and many more.
Don’t forget to follow the 💡Product Circle ⭕ Chat calendar on Luma and register for our next talk on 💡 Product Circle ⭕ Chat - 2025 Trends in Product Management with Amy Mitchell
Become Irreplaceable in 2025
Before we get to Richard’s talk (and recording) below, I’d like to share with you two great courses I’m running. Both virtually and both based on my 20+ years in Product Management.
1. Product Commercials Masterclass - P&L for Product Managers
You’ll learn how to read a Product P&L, what the acronyms mean, which ones are important for product people, how to forecast out and how to read the impact of your product activities on the monthly profit and loss statement. We go into how to create a financial business case model to support your Product Initiatives plus how to communicate and present the Product Health to the leadership team. Tailor your messaging to your audience, influence leaders and get support for your product goals.
Over 4 hours of live training, you’ll get recordings, slides, certificate and a financial business case template you can use for your own modelling.
This course is from my real experience in Product Managemement during my time at Telstra, Optus and Virgin mobile presenting to CEO, C-suite and other Leaders.
Level up your commercial acumen in 2025 with the Product Commercials Masterclass - P&L for Product Managers this February.
Come along and bring your team.
2.Pricing and Monetisation Strategies Masterclass
The Pricing & Monetisation Strategies Masterclass is one I’m really proud of. I used to teach it over 5 years ago at General Assembly in Sydney Australia. I’ve now updated it to include mine (and everyone’s fascination), GenAI.
In over 4 hours, over 3 days virtually, you’ll learn to actually calculate your customer’s willingness to pay. We start with understanding your Customer’s Perception of Value, calculate Willingness to Pay, understand the importance of Price Elasticity of Demand and how to find your Product’s Zone of Genius. We get into the factors in choosing a pricing strategy, the monetisation tactics available, how pricing psychology impacts conversion and why messaging matters. I take you through the legal and regulatory impacts on Pricing and well as how you can use GenAI in your pricing the maximise willingness to pay.
Plus, you get the recordings, the slides and a certificate upon completion.
Stop leaving money on the table with the Pricing and Monetisation Strategies Masterclass in March.
Come along and lets maximise your customer’s willingness to pay.
Now let’s get back to Richard’s talk on Bridging the Gap Between Product Leadership and the Executive Team.
“Your CEO doesn't care about Product Management – and that's not just OK, it's how it should be." - Richard Russell
This 💡Product Circle⭕ Chat was run on the 12 February 2025 at 7pm (AEST) / 9am (CET) with Richard Russell Recording below👇🏼
Why the “Product Evangelist” Approach Fails
Many product leaders enter organisations armed with books like Inspired and Empowered, pushing for a product-led transformation. However, Richard highlighted why this evangelistic approach often backfires:
Execs don’t care about product management—and they shouldn’t. Their focus is on strategy, revenue, operations, and scaling the business, not the intricacies of product discovery.
Sales, marketing, and finance often feel sidelined by product teams doing customer research and pushing agile methods without involving them.
Product-led transformations feel slow to executives who want immediate results. If leadership doesn’t see impact fast enough, they will override product decisions.
Instead of advocating for a philosophical shift, product leaders should approach their exec team like a product manager would approach a market—with deep discovery, tailored messaging, and solutions that align with leadership’s real pain points.
The Startup That Never Took Off: A Lesson in Founder Blindspots and Discovery Oversight
In 2012, Richard Russell left Google after six years of working on products like AdSense, Google Maps, and Programmatic Advertising. Like many ex-Googlers, he had deep experience, confidence, and a strong belief in his ability to build something great.
With savings in the bank, he decided it was time to launch his own startup.
The Big Idea: A Loyalty App for Physical Stores
Richard had observed how online stores like Amazon personalized shopping with cookies—recognising customers, recommending products, and making checkout seamless.
Why couldn’t brick-and-mortar stores do the same?
His startup idea: a mobile loyalty app that would remove friction from in-store experiences.
A customer would walk into a coffee shop, and the app (using geolocation) would instantly identify them.
Their name, loyalty status, and coffee preference would pop up on a tablet behind the counter.
The barista could greet them personally—"Hey Richard, the usual flat white today?"
No more fishing for loyalty cards—stamps were stored digitally.
Eventually, he planned to integrate frictionless payments—customers could simply walk out, and their bill would be charged automatically.
The Early Wins and The Roadblock
Richard built a minimum viable product (MVP) and started pitching to small, independent coffee shops.
Two stores agreed to trial the app, and he managed to onboard 60 monthly active users. The experience worked technically, and early feedback was positive.
But then, nothing happened.
Despite cold outreach, countless pitches, and product refinements, Richard couldn’t get more businesses to sign up.
After a year of grinding, he faced a hard truth—the business wasn’t growing, and he was running out of energy.
What Went Wrong? The Founder Blindspot
Like many first-time founders, Richard fell into a common trap: he built for a problem he assumed existed, rather than one that customers were actively trying to solve.
His biggest blindspots:
🚨 Assuming business owners cared about the problem
Coffee shop owners were not actively looking for a new loyalty system.
Paper punch cards were cheap, familiar, and easy.
The idea of a high-tech loyalty program wasn't compelling enough to make them change.
🚨 Overestimating the pain point for customers
While convenient, the app didn't solve an urgent frustration for customers.
People were used to pulling out their wallets and loyalty cards—it wasn’t a major friction point in their daily lives.
🚨 Skipping proper customer discovery
Richard built first, then tested.
He should have talked to store owners and customers first to understand their real challenges before writing a single line of code.
I can completely understand this. Having made the same mistake before.
The Hard Truth About Startups (and Product Leadership)
Richard later realised this mistake wasn’t just a “founder” problem—it was the same mistake product leaders make inside companies all the time.
🔹 Startup Founders fall in love with their ideas and forget to validate the problem.
🔹 Product Leaders fall in love with the idea of a “product-led” company and forget to validate if executives actually want it.
The lesson? Whether you’re launching a startup or driving product transformation in a company:
✅ Your success depends on getting people to change behavior.
✅ Change only happens when the pain of staying the same is greater than the pain of switching.
✅ Never assume you know the problem—go out and discover it.
Richard’s startup didn’t fail because the idea was bad. It failed because the market wasn’t ready, and he didn’t uncover that early enough.
A tough but valuable lesson—one that many founders (and product leaders) only learn the hard way.
From Friction to Alignment: Coaching a CPO Through a Product-Led Transformation
When Eric joined a Series C SaaS company as Chief Product Officer (CPO), he walked into a battlefield.
The company had been sales-led for years—every deal dictated a new feature, roadmaps were crammed with bespoke commitments, and customer satisfaction was slipping. The investors and CEO brought Eric in to fix it, expecting him to transition the business to a product-led model.
Eric had all the right experience—Big Tech background, successful product teams, and a strong track record. But within months, he hit resistance from every angle:
🔥 The Head of Sales saw him as a threat—“Product is slowing us down.”
🔥 The Head of Marketing felt sidelined—“Why is product taking over customer research?”
🔥 The CFO thought product discovery was expensive and unnecessary.
🔥 The COO wanted predictable roadmaps, not product-led ambiguity.
🔥 Even the CEO kept overruling him, frustrated that things weren’t changing fast enough.
Eric was drowning. He was doing all the right things—training teams on discovery, hiring top-tier PMs, and pushing for a product-driven vision. But the more he pushed, the more resistance he faced.
That’s when we started working together.
The Shift: Stop Selling, Start Listening
Instead of continuing to evangelise product management, Eric needed to think like a product leader, not a product preacher.
We worked through a simple yet powerful shift:
✅ Stop convincing. Start discovering. Instead of telling the exec team why product-led was better, he started asking what wasn’t working for them.
✅ Understand their pain. The CFO wasn’t against discovery—he just needed to see how it reduced financial risk. The Head of Sales wasn’t against product-led thinking—he just needed reassurance that product wouldn’t kill revenue momentum.
✅ Speak their language. Instead of talking about OKRs and empowered teams, he reframed product work in terms of revenue, efficiency, and business outcomes.
As he made these shifts, something incredible happened.
👊 The CEO started leaning in. Eric wasn’t pushing an agenda; he was solving problems that mattered.
👊 Sales and Marketing saw Product as a partner, not a competitor.
👊 The CFO approved more budget for discovery. Why? Because Eric connected it to long-term revenue protection.
👊 The roadmap stopped being a feature wish list and became strategic.
The Takeaway: Influence is Earned, Not Imposed
Eric’s journey is one many product leaders will recognise.
Bringing product thinking into a historically sales-led or project-driven company isn’t about selling product management—it’s about understanding what the business needs and showing how product can help.
💥 If you want leadership buy-in, stop talking about product principles. Start talking about business problems.
💥 If you want to drive change, don’t push—understand.
💥 If you want influence, earn trust by solving the right problems.
💡How to Align Product Leadership with the C-Suite
1. Do Discovery on Your Exec Team
Product leaders should spend time understanding their executive peers, just like they would with users:
What are their biggest pain points?
What’s keeping them up at night?
How do they measure success?
What language do they use to describe their problems?
When you frame product solutions in the context of their challenges, execs will be far more open to change.
2. Speak Their Language
Instead of talking about OKRs, MVPs, and agile sprints, product leaders need to translate product thinking into business priorities. For example:
Instead of "we need to do more user research," say "our churn rate is increasing because we’re not solving the right customer problems. Let’s talk to customers to fix it."
Instead of "we need a discovery culture," say "our current sales pipeline is unpredictable—let’s find repeatable customer patterns to improve forecasting."
3. Build Trust First, Then Push for Change
Executives trust people who understand their world. Richard emphasised the importance of earning trust before pushing for major product-led change. One way to do this?
Ask them to teach you about their function.
"Can you walk me through how you forecast revenue?"
"How do you think about market expansion?"
"What’s working well in operations? What’s frustrating?"
By asking questions and genuinely learning from them, execs will be more likely to reciprocate when it’s time to introduce product ideas.
4. Find the Burning Platform
Major changes don’t happen unless there’s real urgency. Richard shared a story from Amazon about fixing the "Mojibake" issue—where non-Latin characters displayed as unreadable symbols. Amazon only invested in solving it when they realized Alibaba was gaining ground in key international markets.
Similarly, product leaders need to identify the existential risk or massive opportunity that will compel the exec team to change.
Dealing with Resistance: When to Keep Pushing vs. When to Move On
A great question came up: How do you know when to stop trying to influence leadership and look for another opportunity?
Richard’s advice:
If leadership isn’t open to new ideas or learning, change will be nearly impossible. It’s okay to move on.
If you’re fighting for change but see no traction after sustained effort, it may be a sign that the organisation isn’t the right fit for your leadership style.
If the company is growing and succeeding despite poor product practices, they may not see the need for change. Some companies will only pivot when they hit a wall.
Cultural fit and timing are key. If an organisation isn’t ready for product thinking, no amount of evangelism will force the change.
💥 TL;DR
Successful product leaders don’t evangelise product management.
They solve executive problems using product thinking.
If you’re trying to influence your leadership team:
Stop selling “product-led.” Start speaking their language.
Learn what really matters to them and frame product changes accordingly.
Build trust first, then introduce new ways of working.
Product Circle Chat 38 - Topic
Topic: Bridging the Gap Between Product Leadership and the Executive Team
Many product leaders fall into the trap of trying to "sell" product management, pushing for their organisations to become "product-led" or adopt the "product operating model." While well-meaning, these efforts often miss the mark.
In this session, Richard Russell will share why these approaches fail and what works instead. Using the power of product thinking, you’ll uncover practical strategies to align with leadership, foster trust, and drive meaningful impact. Whether you’re navigating executive dynamics, advocating for change, or just looking to amplify your influence, this session will leave you with actionable insights to bridge the gap between product leadership and the executive team.
Product Circle Chat 38 - Video
Product Circle Chat 38 - Speaker
Richard Russell spent six years at Google London working on AdSense, Google Maps, Checkout (now Wallet), and Programmatic Advertising. He later joined Amazon’s European headquarters, leading a team that translated 10 million product listings daily, added ten new languages to Amazon’s ecommerce sites, and solved the notorious "mojibake" problem.
He has founded two startups, served as CPO for an AIM-listed startup, and now consults with leaders ranging from CEOs of VC-backed scaleups to executives at Fortune 500 organisations. Richard specialises in helping organisations adopt product thinking and innovate at scale.
He lives in Luxembourg with his wife, three hyperactive children, his very helpful mother-in-law, and no cats.
Links:
Product Circle Chat - Q&A
❓ How do I get involved?
1. Subscribe to the Product Circle Chat Calendar on Lu.ma and get notified of every 💡 Product Circle ⭕ Chat event
2.Register & Show up - Register to the Product Circle Chat event, block your calendar out and come to the next Chat 📅
3. Share - bring a friend or two who wants to talk all things Product 👯♂️👯♀️
4. Volunteer - volunteer to host or present at one of the future Product Circle Chats 🙋♀️. Drop me an email at irene@phronesisadvisory.com
❓ Will there be more sessions?
Yes. Fortnightly. Every second week.
❓ What if I can’t make the next session or don’t want to miss the next Product Circle chat invite?
Really want to come to the session but 😭 can't make this specific 💡 Product Circle ⭕ Chat?
📆 Get an invite directly into your inbox
👉 Subscribe to the Product Circle Chat Calendar on Lu.ma and get notified of every 💡 Product Circle ⭕ Chat event
💪 We've got you!
❓ Still have Questions?
Talk to me. Send me an email at irene@phronesisadvisory.com
Are you new to Product Management and want to learn from me?
I created a Course. For people new to Product Management.
Aligned it with the Learning Outcomes created by Product greats like Jeff Patton and others. Had it certified by the globally recognised ICAgile.
Choose to spend 2 days learning from me - either face to face or via Zoom - with ICAgile Certified Professional in Product Management (ICP-PDM).
And if you’re looking for a sneaky discount, send me an email at irene@phronesisadvisory.com